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From: June Mullins (junemullins, earthlink dot net) Date: 2001.10.17 - 15.25 MDT
Now that my nose is almost entirely unclogged, I'm adding my meager comments. Dan Oister wrote: > Don: Thanks for the speedy reply. My comments are below your comments. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don jessup" <djessup72, yahoo dot com> > To: <antera, cryptofreak dot org> > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:05 PM > Subject: Re: Quick Update > > >> Those are some interesting comments. Here are some of >> my own. >> >> >> 1. It is hard to work out exactly what they are >> offering. There are lots of words in there but it is >> >> all a bit nebulous. >> >> Hopefully, the new arch doc well help in this area. > > We're working on some simple ways to get the point across. I'll be testing > some stuff with you guys soon. > >> >> >> 2. HSM has been around for a long time but has had >> comparatively little uptake as people don't really >> like it. I think they worry about the wrong tape >> being available and having to worry about having a >> tape library just for HSM. How about offering the >> option of a secondary disk store that is usually spun >> down so you get the benefits of not having to back it >> up and power draw, but subject to the disks spinning >> up will be instantly available. >> >> Going to secondary disk works but probably still >> needs to be backup in some fashion. > > I think the asynchronous transfer will solve this hurdle. If we provide > virus checking before replication onto migration level 2, we should catch > anything ugly before it gets replicated. I thought one of our big selling points was cheap archival storage - so going to secondary disk doesn't necessarily provide that. Isn't there some cutoff point at which the cost of a tape library is recouped because relatively little is on disk? > >> 3. How does the concept of spooling directly to >> tape work with versioning. It may be that someone >> save and re-edits a file many times, in which case you >> end up with a tape full of different versions. There >> needs to be a tape consolidation method. >> >> I thought we had drop the idea of versioning. > > I think his main concern is having a bunch of stale files still resident in > the library. At some point, we'll need to acquire/partner/develop a utility > that collects the "live" files from the tape volumes (or whatever ML2 is), > and re-create new, fresh, high storage efficiency volumes. I agree that we need some kind of consolidation software. Hopefully, there's something out there that already does that. > >> 4. In the corporate environment directory services are >> becoming increasingly relevant, with both NDS and now >> Active Directory. Most storage centric manufacturers >> neglect the requirement for any devices to fit in with >> the directory structure. >> >> This is good knowledge and something that probably >> needs to be researched. Does EA or Samba support >> Active Directory. What is NDS? > > HP is coming out with Linux resident ADS support. Its about 6 - 8 weeks > away, and will be open source. So Antera, and every NAS vendor will have a > suitable file services permission structure for these corporate > environments. > >> 5. WORM in the legal environment utilises a disk >> technology that cannot be rewritten no matter what you >> do to it. That is why it stands up in court. This is >> clearly changeable with a switch so the legal bit is >> of no use. However it could be useful in non legal >> environments. >> >> I assuming there is some kind of miscommunication >> here. I'm assuming the bit would send the doc to a >> permanent medium. So changing the bit would only >> affect further updates. > > > Don't know. I think he's concerned about the "letter of the law" on > re-write-ability requirements for legal markets. No big deal as of yet. To > your point, one of the recipients of legal data on the back end could be > CD-R - which can't be updated or appended. > >> 6. They mention multiple 200Mb/s streams. Clearly as >> with Tricord this bandwidth capability is crucial. >> >> This is cleary dependent on the hardware. > > Yup. You're right. > >> 7. One thing that doesn't seem to exist in the >> market is a packaged backup solution. NAS appliances >> assume that all the data is going to reside on the >> appliance. This cannot always be the case, or may not >> always be desirable. For example, there are always >> arguments about the merits of putting databases or >> installable file systems, such as Exchange, on NAS. >> With products like Bakbones Netvault there are newish >> backup software products that cover a wide range of >> platforms and offer a wide range of library support >> with optional disk staging. The problem is that you >> cannot disk stage to a network drive, so you end up >> having to put in a dedicatedish backup server. How >> about a packaged device that has all the connectivity >> they are talking about, including the library support, >> but with a decent backup application running on the >> box so you have local disk staging, directly attached >> tape library and if they can do snap shotting of the >> arget data to backup it could be really interesting. >> >> What does he mean by disk stage to a network drive? > > > He means using disk as a collection/consolidation point for network backups. > We do a nice job of meeting his requirements on this one, and it may be > worth further exploration to make sure we hit the bull's eye. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- Dan Oister <dan.oister, home dot com> wrote: >> >>> Team, >>> >>> I'm still a road warrior, but continue to get >>> validation at every presentation I go to. >>> >>> I had some interesting feedback from a gentleman who >>> runs a large reseller in England that I'd like to >>> share. He had seen an early version of a >>> presentation that left him questioning exactly what >>> we're doing, but his comments on a backup appliance >>> are worth reading. >>> >>> I also met with a VC consultant yesterday and got >>> some good feedback and direction from him. >>> >>> ...hope all's well with everyone. Don't hesitate to >>> call or write!! >>> >>> Dan O >>> >>> 303-456-0103 (ofc. forwards to cell phone) >>> >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> >>> > From: Richard Pain >>> [mailto:richard.pain, solutioncentre dot co.uk] >>> >>> > Sent: 03 October 2001 09:45 >>> >>> > To: 'bgriffiths, nas dot uk.com' >>> >>> > Subject: RE: Returned mail: see transcript >>> for details >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Barry >>> >>> > >>> >>> > It is hard to work out exactly what they are >>> offering. There are lots of >>> >>> > words in there but it is all a bit nebulous. >>> A few random things that >>> >>> > spring to mind: >>> >>> > >>> >>> > HSM has been around for a long time but has >>> had comparatively little >>> >>> uptake >>> >>> > as people don't really like it. I think >>> they worry about the wrong tape >>> >>> > being available and having to worry about >>> having a tape library just for >>> >>> > HSM. How about offering the option of a >>> secondary disk store that is >>> >>> > usually spun down so you get the benefits of >>> not having to back it up and >>> >>> no >>> >>> > power draw, but subject to the disks >>> spinning up will be instantly >>> >>> > available. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > How does the concept of spooling directly to >>> tape work with versioning. >>> >>> It >>> >>> > may be that someone save and re-edits a file >>> many times, in which case you >>> >>> > end up with a tape full of different >>> versions. There needs to be a tape >>> >>> > consolidation method. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > In the corporate environment directory >>> services are becoming increasingly >>> >>> > relevant, with both NDS and now Active >>> Directory. Most storage centric >>> >>> > manufacturers neglect the requirement for >>> any devices to fit in with the >>> >>> > directory structure. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > WORM in the legal environment utilises a >>> disk technology that cannot be >>> >>> > rewritten no matter what you do to it. That >>> is why it stands up in court. >>> >>> > This is clearly changeable with a switch so >>> the legal bit is of no use. >>> >>> > However it could be useful in non legal >>> environments. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > They mention multiple 200Mb/s streams. >>> Clearly as with Tricord this >>> >>> > bandwidth capability is crucial. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > One thing that doesn't seem to exist in the >>> market is a packaged backup >>> >>> > solution. NAS appliances assume that all >>> the data is going to reside on >>> >>> the >>> >>> > appliance. This cannot always be the case, >>> or may not always be >>> >>> desirable. >>> >>> > For example, there are always arguments >>> about the merits of putting >>> >>> > databases or installable file systems, such >>> as Exchange, on NAS. With >>> >>> > products like Bakbones Netvault there are >>> newish backup software products >>> >>> > that cover a wide range of platforms and >>> offer a wide range of library >>> >>> > support with optional disk staging. The >>> problem is that you cannot disk >>> >>> > stage to a network drive, so you end up >>> having to put in a dedicatedish >>> >>> > backup server. How about a packaged device >>> that has all the connectivity >>> >>> > they are talking about, including the >>> library support, but with a decent >>> >>> > backup application running on the box so you >>> have local disk staging, >>> >>> > directly attached tape library and if they >>> can do snap shotting of the >>> >>> > target data to backup it could be really >>> interesting. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > I'm sure there are lots of things I have >>> missed, but I don't fully >>> >>> > understand from what I have read exactly >>> what they are doing. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Best regards >>> >>> > Richard >>> >>> > >>> >>> > ---------SEE us at Storage Expo 2001 STAND >>> 426 (call for details)--------- >>> >>> > >>> >>> > <http://www.solutioncentre.co.uk/> >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Solution Centre Ltd. Vickers House, >>> Priestley Road, Basingstoke, RG24 9NP >>> >>> > >>> >> === message truncated === >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. >> http://personals.yahoo.com >> -- >> This is the antera mailing list. To unsubscribe, email >> majordomo, cryptofreak dot org with message body `unsubscribe antera'. >> Or, for more information, visit http://www.cryptofreak.org/. >> > > -- > This is the antera mailing list. To unsubscribe, email > majordomo, cryptofreak dot org with message body `unsubscribe antera'. > Or, for more information, visit http://www.cryptofreak.org/. > > -- This is the antera mailing list. To unsubscribe, email majordomo, cryptofreak dot org with message body `unsubscribe antera'. Or, for more information, visit http://www.cryptofreak.org/.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : 2001.10.18 - 03.00 MDT |